Uncertain Identity?

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If you are a European and all of a sudden want to start cultivating the deities in you, what would you do? What deities would e. g. a Spaniard, a Romanian or a Frenchman identify with? What deities would a European American identify with?

To some this might not be so important, but to others it probably is very important. Personally I don’t really like to identify with e. g. Ôðinn, Freyr, Þôrr, Tyr, Njörðr or any others Norse deities, but actually prefer their proto-Nordic names (*WôðanaR, *FraujaR, *ÞunaR, *TîwaR, *NerþuR), or even their (older) proto-Nordic names (*Wôþanaz, *Fraujaz, *Þunaz, *Tîwaz, Nerþuz). I have even reconstructed their names as they probably would have been in the Bronze Age and possibly even in the Neolithic Age (*Woþanas, *Prius, *Dunus, *Diwus, *Nerþus), for MYFAROG, because somehow I felt that this was a natural thing to do. Yes, it is really just a question of names, because the deities are basically the same, all over Europe, no matter what we call them. Zevs = Þôrr = Juppiter = Perun = Perkele = Perkunos = Taranis et cetera.

Whatever feels right for you is right for you. If you are French and feel Gaulish then use a Gaulish name. If you are French and feel Roman then use a Roman name. If you are French and feel Frankish then use a Scandinavian name. If you really don’t care or are in doubt just check out where your forebears came from, or perhaps where most of your forebears came from, and use the names most commonly used in their homeland. The name is not so important in itself; what is important is your relationship to the name and how it inspires you to become better. HailaR WôðanaR!

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166 thoughts on “Uncertain Identity?

  1. I was born in Brazil, so I hail… damn =(

    I wanted to be European, wanted to be born in Europe. Do not know why my ancestors came to Brazil =´(

    Can I hail the european deities?

    You have no idea how I’m depressed to live and know that I was born here.

  2. Any advice for a Belgian guy? Well, if you allow me to be more precise, I was born in Belgium (like my mother and most of her ancestors, as far as I can tell), but my father has italian origins (his parents and their known ancestors were all born and raised in Italy). So, technically, I am a gaulish Roman… Why, that might explain some inner conflicts. 😛

    • I should have mentioned as well that – curiously enough – I feel particularly attracted to Greek mythology and even some deities of Norse/Germanic mythology…

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  8. Varg is Rebekka Sivelsten your daughter? If so, she’s grown into a beautiful woman! A beautiful voice too!

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  10. Scandis fell before many others and even helped the church to gain power in Finland. The lithuanians were the last if I remember correctly…

    • What?…Most of Europe fell before Scandinavia, even Poland maybe (?), Iceland wad not Christianized until 1000 (“peacefully” supposedly), Denmark around the same time, and Norway I think (they must have Christianized around then as Harald Hardrada was a Christian monarch). Sweden was not Christinaized until even later, around 1200, I think. Compare this to the Saxons who were Christianized in the 7th century I think, or the Celts who were Christianized long before then (many of the missionaries responsible for spreading the disease were Irish of course).

      Lithuania was impressive, though. I imagine the common populace took even longer to fully convert, may be why certain “weird” beliefs existed in the Baltic in the Early Modern periood, such as werewolves (and people were still using runes then in Iceland)

      • Sweden was christianized in 1160 a.d. and they attacked finland after that, off course using religion as a excuse. The pagans finnic tribes burned down the christianized Sigtuna in the year 1187.

    • Varg i really want to know my forbears..i need your help to guide me to find out this..i was adopted at 11 months old…i know i am spaniard, italian, irish, scottish, polish)..i really need some help to figure my foprbears out..thank you varg this is Grim dreaddeath from google plus..:)

  11. It is very important to say that we all Europeans are the same Race a White/Light Race. All Europeans must recognize that. All that chauvinism only “slowed” us in the way to be perfect. The main enemy of us is and was always NON european !

    With all that different deities, names, it is like with a beautiful music. No one should listen only to the one song for whole life, no matter how beautiful it is. At most will listen to the whole album of songs.

  12. – Pagan European religions are the same at core;
    – Cultural manifestations aren’t born only out of blood, so to speak, out of our ethnic uniqueness, but also from imported “trends” (which aren’t necessarily bad, since they are a natural phenomenon);
    – Back then there wasn’t religious intolerence and xenophobia between us as understood and witnessed in modern times (root cause of these being the Abrahamic religions of course).

    Keeping these ideas in mind, and also adding the fact that indeed I, as a Romanian can’t easily relate to terms (the outside “shell”) such as “Njörðr” and also the fact that most of the cultural legacy of Dacians is lost to us (despite what some naive “WE ARE 100% DACIANS!!!1” fellows might think), I like to see our future like this (for Romania):
    – In urban centres, we’d have mostly Roman temples. Main reasons: ours is a Romance language and concentrating power in cities (like today) is mostly a Roman development. We can easily relate and understand Roman deities using their names as keys, and we can easily understand and love pagan Roman traditions.
    – Dacian spirituality is close to the hearts of many of use, for understandable reasons, so Dacian temples would also be in large numbers, especially in those special, mystical and isolated areas (in rural communities, mountains, old forests). Old Dacian mystics/clerics lived similar to how Christian monks live, peacefullly, quietly, contemplative, away from society and its decadence. A journey to a Dacian temple would be a spiritual quest taking place on many levels. 🙂
    – Some Greek and maybe Slavic temples might be appreciated by some. We have close ties to both Slavs and Greeks (culturally and genetically), throughout the entire ancient, medieval and modern periods, so this would be normal.
    – Germanic temples should be present aswell – Thor is the ‘popular figure’ now and rightfully so! A lot of Nordic beliefs were kept away, safe from the Abrahamic invasion, so it is only natural that it plays the role of a spark in our conciousness (and it actually did and does so!). End any chauvinistic mindset against your European brothers, regardless if Germanic, Roman, Slav, Gaul etc.

    Also, people back then didn’t worship ALL the Gods all the time, and most didn’t have a holistic approach to religion. Caste played an important role, specific events throughout lifetime, or your natural desires. For example, I, a Romanian, who lets say have a warrior mentality, would be interested in having Mars/Ares as a ‘Mentor’. Going to the Temple of Mars and taking part in rituals dedicated to the warrior spirit would be what I need and desire. But I also need to feel better connected to my community, to my ancestors, to contemplate at the destiny of my folk – so a spiritual approach to Zamolxis or Gebeleizis would also be vital to. Am I speaking in a profane way maybe, but I think this is how things would develop. 🙂

    • The way I see it, you have the choice of either Roman deities or root Slavonic deities, which would have continued in Dacia if it had not been conquered by the Romans, as Romanians are obviously Slavs, and even the language looks and sounds fairly Slavonic to me despite being, if I am not mistaken, the closest to Latin out of all the Romance languages. It’s the same as the issue Varg mentioned of French people choosing between Gaelic or Roman gods…if you feel particularly anti-Roman/”pro-rural” you may feel better with the Slav deities….If you’re not bothered then stick with the Roman ones as you seem to be doing anyway

      • Well, I wouldn’t say we are Slavs, although we have a lot of Slavic blood and we were influenced by them during late Ancient and the entire Medieval period. The Orthodox Church played a big role too, since it used Cyrilic script and Old Slavonic in liturgy for some time, switching to Latin later.
        Our language has many Slavonic words and I guess the reason why it sounds Slavonic to your ears is because of the vocal  or Î, which is a common sound in Romanian, also found in Polish, Russian and some Swedish dialects (and Portuguese apparently). The vocal Ă (as the ‘e’ in english “winnEr”) is also very common and perhaps contributes to this; you can hear this type of sound in bulgarian, lithuanian, albanese, but also in english. Romanian grammar is derived from and close to Latin grammar however, not Slavonic, and has its unique features that some believe to come from the Dacian substratum (just as other Romance languages were build upon Celtic or Germanic substratum). This is supported by a few similarities with Albanese, who are probably what remains of a Thracian/Illyrian tribe…
        Nationalism and politics turned many of us away and against Slavs and their influences, some reasons are just, some injust. Personally I hope to see this change in the future, but I don’t see how Slavic deities will be accepted here anytime soon, Roman and Dacian are better for us in my opinion. 🙂

  13. Stephen McNallen is a good man. I have to get out to Cali. to meet everyone out there. I hate Cali. though. We have Winternights here in Pennsylvania with the AFA. Its great. Blood Axis, Knotwork and Changes played there. Where are you from Pict?

  14. To me it’s all reduced to simplicity, I don’t need fancy names from a distant lenguage, I don’t even need to set a pantheon. To me the true gods are the trees, the animals, the weather, the sun, the honor, the values, ourselves the humans etc.
    And I think it makes all easier, because in the end the legends and stories about the gods were only made to remember important facts and catch the people interest.

  15. Perkele is finnish curse word, it think i have to report this site for inappropriate language 😉

    • Yeah, the Christians demonized and now Modern Finnish translates it to “Devil”, if I am correct?

  16. Honestly I prefer using Perun instead of Thor. The reasons being that Hollywood Jews have destroyed the good name of Thor with their bullshit movies. Further, the Jew Stan Lee created those damned comic books that destroyed the image of Thor and Odin for generations.

    So when I mention “Thor” the average idiot thinks of Hollywood Thor or Comic book Thor. But when I mention Perun, they are instantly curious, not realizing the only difference between Perun and Thor (other than name) is that Thor had a hammer whereas Perun had an axe.

    • He is only one of the vocalists, and as far as I know he writes none of the music. Despite being homosexual he has a pretty good (and very anti-socialist) attitude

        • That’s fine, Varg. I just discovered this a few days ago and had no idea about the man. Personally I don’t care, and I just love the music and atmosphere it presents. To me there is a difference between a homosexual and a faggot, he isn’t a proselytizing, flamboyant faggot but his sexual identity is still misguided and unwanted to me.
          If you don’t want his music murking up your website, I’ll refrain from mentioning it.

          • He’s hanging out with little skater boys who are wearing pink pants! One is 16 one is 13 and one is his 18 year old “boyfriend”.
            Don’t defend him.

            • I’d like to see a photo. I always thought he was an odd character. But let’s not talk about this, I had just watched a documentary about some of his crimes in the past and I really don’t want to hear about him. Out of sight, out of mind. Music is good, but he is not the leader of the band as I see it.

              • One last word on this, I don’t know where these claims come from, as far as I can tell he is gay and rather private about it. He is certainly more dignified and intelligent than that loser King, I was disappointed to see he’s still connected with him in God Seed (whose album, I am ashamed to say, I bought recently, on a whim somewhat, before quickly realizing it is mostly just a rip-off of Enslaved…)

                I will check out their new album as they are serious about the whole concept but now I’d sooner listen to more organic, more authentic sounding folk music…

                  • Indeed….I don’t know why I ever showed any interest in him to be honest, he isn’t really any better than “King”, just less obnoxious and a little less of a poser…he comes across as serious and down to Earth sometimes in interviews but he does still seem rather satanic, and his god seed project shows he is still a part of the embarrassing bastardization of what was once black metal…

                    I could try to defend “serious satanists” but I am not sure if there really is such a thing, half the time it’s just pagans or pseudo-pagans just posing as satanists to be cool, Emperor being a classic example of this…Though at least Dissection were pretty serious about it, as Jon proved by blowing his brains out in front of a grimoire…

                  • Yeah I was briefly impressed by the first couple of tracks so I foolishly bought it, but it’s just more polished poorly played BM and mostly a shit version of enslaved…

                    • An honest, hopeful mistake;)
                      Gaahl is dead now. His “talent” has expired.
                      I will not be purchasing the Wardruna record. Unfortunate because the instrumentalist and songwriter is a fan of Vargs and Burzum.

              • As for his crimes, he “tortured” and beat up a guy who attacked him…big deal…not the stoical European way of doing things perhaps but I share his logical view that you should punish as you see fit those who attack you (this idea does admittedly seem quite close to the Laveyan “philosophy” though…And no one should enjoy carrying out torture, even if it is justified)

                • I’m fine with the torture. I’d like to torture him actually.
                  Look, Varg asked us to stop. So after I say this I will say no more.
                  I saw pics of him at a skate park with waaaaay too young skater fags. He’s probably having pedophile orgies. It took me about 40 minutes to uncover all of this about “Mr. Gay Norwegian of the Year 2010”.

  17. I’m born in North of Italy but my parents are both from the south. I think it is proper to hail the Ancient Greek Gods.

      • Why the debate about Roman and Greek when, bar the odd exception, like Janus and Mithras, they are EXACTLY the same, many of the names being identical or similar. The gods were introduced to the Romans as Greek gods by the Etruscans, so either sounds fine by me, though Roman would make more sense historically I guess…just pick one as a “norm” (nothing to stop you showing an interest in the other related myths too, I still do)

          • My point was that you are both from Italy yet point out your interest in different pantheons, when unlike other European subcultures they really are pretty much the same thing, with exactly the same mythology apart from a few myths that are unique to either Greece or Rome.

            I can see how someone from the South could feel more “Mediterranean” and Greek, but both seem Mediterranean to me…A more interesting question would be who do both of you follow more, the Greek philosophers or the Roman ones?

            • Sincerely, I’m not strongly inside Philosophy. I read only Plato, Marcus Aurelius and Epitteto. I gladly accept advices. However in reality I’m more “attached” to the Greek Mythology, but when I can I always refer to the Roman Mythology…and I can say that there are other exclusive Roman Deities further than Giano and Mithras, like Bellona and Quirino.

                • Exactly! Mithras is the best example of assimilation of a Deity from another tribe/population.

                • Apparently it’s up for debate, but the linguistic similarity in the name cannot be ignored… Just minor variations on the same Persian (and Sumerian?…..) deity I guess…

              • We should be inspired enough by the myths alone, but the great philosophers show a natural development of it all…I can’t speak for Plato, but Socrates (via Plato) is excellent, as is Marcus Aurelius….I have not read much else either, to be honest. But of course, Havamal is at least as valuable to us as Aurelius’ Meditations.

  18. Even though European cultures, languages and religions have a common source, they developed in different ways and became quite unique. I think this germanic (or scandinavian as Varg prefers) “trend” that has grown immensely since black metal and viking metal became popular genres gives a “new age” feel to the whole pagan movement – makes it look like just a brainless stupid and unserious modern fetish for a few – heavily deformed – aspects of paganism. These days we see Portugueses, Italians, Poles, Russians, Hungarians and people from all around Europe (and even from outside of Europe) wearing mjölnir pendants around their necks. They seem to believe that to be a “pagan” is to drink beer from a horn, listen to viking metal and act like a filthy viking from some bullshit hollywood movie. Instead of turning to the ways of their forefathers and drinking from their wisdom, they are subscribing to a cultural import, and a heavily falsified one. Even if it was the authentic scandinavian culture, why a Greek, who have access to a vast collection of pagan poetry and philosophy from a time before christianity, untouched by the Jewish plage, should subscribe to scandinavian paganism instead of their own, and use exclusively scandinavian names and symbols (when there are similar symbols in their own culture, and names in their own language for the same deities and things)? I think we should be honouring the ways and the culture of our forefather, not the those of their cousins from abroad…

    • I couldn’t agree more with you. We are witnessing a undermining of the Germanic tradition with it new found popularity. I have far too many times met people who’s main interest is drinking beer and have fun, but when you start talking about the interesting things, like politics, tradition, spirituality then they run and hide in their shroud of ignorance.

      I’ve lost count of many times I’ve met south american people who actually feel offended when I tell them they have nothing to do with the Germanic traditions, and should stick to their own.

      But as with every trend it will pass, and the dedicated will stay. In Scandinavia the punk-skinheads used the pagan symbols but it passed, now it is the mainstream metal crowd and it will soon pass as well.

      • I don’t care much for skinhead punks, even if they act like negroes, as long as they are anti-jewish and racially conscious we are still much better with them then with the others who act like negroids AND think like liberal jew lackeys. What is really bad is people selling germanic paganism as a “lifestyle” available for anyone who is willing to buy their music and merch and go to their shows. It’s the same universal multi-cultural negroid plague desguised as “pagan wisdom”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yyx0mHX2kcY

    • Very well said B. I know that Russia has a large amount of Norse blood, but I’ve always found it a little strange how every single Russian and Slavic Black/Viking/Folk/NS Metal band uses so much Norse/Germanic symbolism, names and mythology. Skyforger may be an exception.

      • But Skyforger isn’t Slavic! 😛

        (Arkona totally is. And I’m referring to the Russian, folk metal one. I think the black metal Poles with an homonymous band are Satanists …)

        • Skyforger are Latvian, but they are shit anyway so it doesn’t matter. For decent slav music apart from Arkona as mentioned I highly recommend Kroda (Drudkh have come up before too)…I don’t know about Arkona but a lot of the bands like Graveland, Kroda and Drudkh are practically “nazis” so at least they have their heads screwed on.

          And I am not aware of any other Arkona.

          • Don’t forget about Nokturnal Mortum, Dub Buk or the many bands that share members with Drudkh: Hate Forest, Astrofaes, Dark Ages(ambient). Also Branikald, Bilskirnir, Khors, and Lucifugum.

            A lot of Slavic and Russian people seem to have their heads screwed on right. Might have something to do with being located next to non-white countries. It’s a bit hard to convince someone of a lie when reality is standing on the other side of the fence.

        • Mid-late Absurd (after their stupid Oi/RAC early stuff) is excellent also, very patriotic and inspiring, without being “nazi” or properly black metal, or even properly folk metal….Just “pro-Germanic metal” I guess..

  19. Varg I have seen you refer to the “skull index” in some other post. Is this the cephalic index / cranial index? I would like to ask which other measurements one can apply to his body to find out more about the influences in our slightly mixed heritage? For example arm length and all that, is there a reliable online list one can consult (not influenced by any bad science)? I always feel guilty when I ask something here because you have a lot to do, but maybe you can summarize your knowledge about this in a future article?

    I am about 1.78 in height which I guess is pretty much European average or slightly larger, but me and my father have kind of a very “compact” overall body structure with strong bones, so in my opinion our bodies look a lot Neanderthal. We do have a tendency toward a large belly (this type of fat is hard to reduce for us, but as always fat was and is essential for survival)

    • By skull index I mean the relation between the length and width of the skull. Note though that I don’t think this is VERY important.

      When it comes for the “rest” I think you can find some answers on Atala.fr.

      Feel free to ask about anything, but please just don’t be angry at me if I some times fail to answer. 🙂

      Others here can in any case also answer some relevant questions.

      • Compact body structure as well as strong heavy bones I have noticed is a central-eastern European trait.These people are also often naturally born very strong .Its no surprise that in sports that require strenth such as sphere,discus or javelin throwing the top athletes are always from Germany,Poland,Belarus and the Baltic states

        • southern,western and north Europeans as well as north Germans and Dutch are usually of a more slender built .When i was in Norway I could very easily distinguish Slavonic immigrants from locals from their robust bone structure and shape of their skulls

        • I’ve had the impression that champion weightlifters tend to be Polish, Baltic *and Iranian* – a connection, maybe?

          • Okay, but they are not at all stronger than North Europeans; they just don’t have to lift the weights very far or high, with those short limbs of theirs.

            • ….Or maybe they are just allowed to flourish and are given proper training unlike Western European athletes who are constantly overshadowed by the “superhuman” black athletes (reverse nazism, anyone?)

              The athletics are a total joke, I did enjoy watching some events of the Olympics, but only the more “physical” ones like gymnastics and swimming, as white people generally did brilliantly in those areas, as well as the Japanese and Chinese (no matter how well you train them, running seems to be the one thing Africans are good at)

              • These guys are in any case not really human beings, but more like walking examples of how steroids and hormones can turn a human into a big lump of meat. 🙂

                To my knowledge an Icelander used to be the best, but the short-limbs arguments still count here…

                • Even without steroids they’re artificially pumped with protein drinks so they can get fit in a short period of time instead of spending their youth getting into shape as our ancestors would have…the Olympic weightlifters and even Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime look reasonably human though, at least, and not as grotesque as many body builders out there who clearly do use steroids all the time…

                • Yes a lot are. But these “strongmen” are naturally huge. And they have incredible stamina.
                  They eat what our ancestors ate. Meat and a lot of fish.

                • The Icelander’s name was Magnus ver Magnusson, which i consider an aptonym, given his years at the top of that discipline.

  20. Well, that’s kind of difficult to narrow it down to one tribe. We may as well just all call ourselves “Goths”? Using the logic above.
    Considering that a lot of different tribes made up the Goths.
    On a side note, I wonder what made those Normans so bad ass? Did they kick ass or what?

    • It’s fairly common knowledge that Normandy was basically a Viking colony, the only thing that made the Normans French was their language…just look at the illustrations of their boats in the Bayeux tapestry – remind you of anyone?

      And by the way, Thor is more Scandinavian, Thurs is the Anglo Saxon term if I am correct, no big deal but would make sense to be consistent…having said that I am more familiar with certain Greek/Roman deities than their Norse equivalents…

  21. As a Bulgarian I can use slavic or thracian names. I could also use proto-bulgarian names, though very little is known about them, and even that is subjected to relentless propaganda and disinformation from different parties.

    • But, according to some, the original Bulgars might have been Asians (kin to Turks/Mongols) – do you think they were an Iranian people, or something else?

      • The original Bulgars are not even Europeans, but Mongoloid race, so I don’t see why we should help them in any way. Modern Bulgaria is Bulgar in name only — and the Mongols living there are mainly Turks — and a few Tatars from the Golden Horde.

        • That is exactly the propaganda I’m talking about, it dates back to soviet times and is intended to bring down our national identity and lump us with the russians. There’s a lot of evidence from modern historians that proto-bulgars are actually of indo-european descent. If the bulgars are mongoloids, so are the magyars anyway.
          Don’t speak so confidently of something you know little about.

          • He didn’t say you are mongoloids, he said that the people from who the name derives were Mongolian, which is pretty well known. It’s probably similar to “Hungarians” bearing the name of a Turkic invading people when they are generally European just like the rest of us.

          • Okay, then give us this evidence.

            Sorry, pro-“Bulgarian” so-called Pagan websites who are anti-Slav and anti-Thracian (ergo anti-European!) and who advice blonde and blue-eyed individuals to STAY AWAY and tell them “THIS IS NOT FOR YOU”, and show pictures of Tatars on horseback, doesn’t sound very EUROPEAN or Indo-European to me. So can you explain that?

            Magyars come from the 100% European Scythian people…

            • Those websites are indeed full of shit and I would advise you to stay away from them as I do. I don’t know where you got the impression that I support them. They are anti-european and anti-bulgarian as well, what they are is pro-turk, probably supported by the turk party.

              The proto-bulgars are more likely to be of scythian origin as well. Their earliest known domain is in Scythia, dating back from the III and IVth century. The little that is known about their language and belief is very different from what is known about turkic tribes. What is known is that the turkic tribes from that period were nomadic, and the bulgars had a state. Byzantine chronicles refer to a “Great old Bulgaria” from the VIIth century that encompassed approximately the territory of present-day Ukraine.

              Our Bulgaria was formed in the beginning of the VIIIth century, when part of the bulgars migrated southwest after Great old Bulgaria collapsed. They immediately formed an alliance with the slavs already present there and found a state together, that lasts to this day.

              Now I don’t see slavs forming an alliance with the turks so easilly, or any kind of asians for that matter. Do you?

                • There is absolutely no direct archeologacal evidence to confirm that the title “khan” was ever used. The byzantine chronicles date from a later period when the lands of GoB were occupied by tatars – a fact that likely caused confusion. Same with the rest of the turkic names. Besides, where do you know that those names were turkic anyway?

                  You talk about scandinavian history being exploited and falsified en masse by the christians and jews, yet so readily accept the wikipedia version of bulgarian history.

                  Anyway, i’m tired of arguing about this, I feel closest to the slavic paganism myself and that’s what I choose to identify with.

                  • Don’t get me wrong. I didn’t mean to argue against your views, to force my view on anyone; I only wanted to hear whatever you have to say against the official version of history. I agree that we should not trust this official theory if there is evidecne suggesting we shouldn’t.

                    In the case of Bulgaria I — possibly living in ignorance — believe (believe; not know) the population is mostly Slav and Thracian, and that only the name of the nation is from Asia, because the rulers of that nation at one point were Bulgars.

                    I also see that many anti-European (Turkish?) “Bulgarians” are claiming the name of Bulgars.

                    Finally, I simply wish that all Europeans in what today is called Bulgaria will identify themselves as Europeans, and not as something that might actually be Asian. It is much easier for the rest of us to call you brothers if you do — and at least I see you as such.

                    • You are right about the population, a recent genetic study shows mostly slavic genes with mediterranean (thracian) admixture.

                      The anti-european and pro-turkish sentiments are actually perpetuated by certain turkish elements in our parlament, a party called “Movement for Rights and Freedoms” that describes itself as “liberal”. It’s head is called Achmed Dogan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1XYGL8jWA :D), why it is allowed to exist, I do not know (it is close to the socialist traitor party).

                      The point is, we are also affected by anti-europeans, only they defend turkish interests instead of jewish ones.

                      Good night!

                • I’ll just reply for the sake of replying really, as it’s been almost 3 years from the time this was posted. But as the person above me noted, Bulgaria was never described as a Khanate, nor its leaders as Khans, the most common title was Knyaz, or various honorary Byzantine titles like Caesar, and later on Tsar.

                  As for Kubrats name, well “kurt” is turkic for wolf, which could possibly relate to the name Kubrat, yet his name wasn’t really Kubrat, it was Krovat, according to the documents of his time. The closest word to “krov” in Bulgarian is “kruv”, meaning blood, so maybe that’s where the meaning of the name lies.

                  And at the last, it has to be noted that the Bulgarians have been mentioned as living in modern Bulgaria in the 4th and 5th century AD, 200-300 years before the official foundation of the Bulgarian state (and 681 was the year that it was officially recognised by the Byzantines, it makes no mention of creation). Yet well into the 10th century, the Bulgarians have been called Moesians, which is the name of a Thracian tribe, living in the danubian plain/steppe since antiquity.

                  Anyone is free to draw his own conclusion based on those facts.

                  • And in the art of the period, the Bulgars/Bulgarians are shown as brown-haired, light-skinned people. They were even fairer than the Byzanitnes they were killing in one Byzantine painting from the same period. Looking at any images of them from the early Middle Ages, it’s quite clear that they have nothing Asiatic/Mongoloid in their appearance.

              • The fact that other Slavs have avoided all alliances with Asians does not mean the Slavs in today’s Bulgaria could not have been an exception to this rule.

    • Word of mouth. Some births and marriages are documented.
      This is more extensive on my father’s side, I only know that parts of my mother’s side fled from Greece and Serbia to Italy in order to get away from the Ottoman influence on their society, there they intermarried with Italians in Naples.
      My father though, it was just passed down by word of mouth. His grandfather’s father recorded it in some way, somewhere hidden in family documents. Some of my ancestors branch off some intermingling few Scottish and Welsh families that had some sort of depth in the political interior of the British Empire.
      Again, I have no deeper information around that but I will and I am looking into it all now with this question of the brown eyes I have.
      My father’s family moved here from Scotland to Louisiana over some financial complication, my uncle owns a pretty serious cemetery business. He is a hardcore Catholic who has contempt to see the dead go without ritual and care to bury them, which is a good ambition if you exclude Catholicism from that.
      Their ability to rake in the money in exchange to hold these burials has made them important to the citizens of New Orleans, and so these documents of the family is important to my father to pass on.
      I too am interested in their ability to preserve these things.

  22. Excellent post, this touches on some of things discussed in your earlier post “Rune Lore”. It is important to look at our forebears history in a somewhat logical way. They were by no means less intelligent then we are today and they most likely realized this to; It is all just forms. Since they had their own stories of spirituality from their ancestors they have probably drawn the same conclusions we do today.

    I am convinced that our intuition is our greatest tool in rediscovering the lost knowledge. Books, speeches etc. fill one with useless information (most of the time). Time is better spent thinking for yourself and do something with the conclusions you draw. This is what every serious magician (or shaman, whatever suits your tastes) knows and do; Use a limited amount of “Book-knowledge” as a base and then receive the knowledge. I believe this hinted in the Edda as well.

    My two cents.

    /E

    • Very wise. I believe too many Pagans today focus too much on the academia and theory surrounding the religion rather than the spiritual and material practice. Paganism is rooted in what can best be described as ‘Shamanism’, and it was through the free exploration of Shamanic concepts that the names, rituals, mythology and festivities arose. So in order to really understand Paganism we must also put the books down and experience what the first Pagans experienced themselves.

  23. Hello Varg, can you give me some hints or your reading sources as to whom may a Romanian identify with?
    As Solfaur said bellow, Zamolxis/Gebeleizis could be one of them if not the only one (weren’t Dacians/Thracians monotheistic, or this is another christian lie for a convenient transition to christianity?)

    • You are absolutely right, it’s a christian lie! Forget about pre-christian Dacians/Thracians; how ignorant must Romanians be to believe in such things?!, it is a real judeo-christianic ignorrance! And, Zamolxis and Gebeleizis are not the same God(for more about this read in my comment on Solfaur). And except them, there are many other Thracian Dieties, which are just different regional names and forms of Gebeleizis, Zamolxis, and Bendis. So Thracian culture is our heritage too.

      P.S. Don’t believe what they write in books(especially in Romania), especially don’t believe to such judeo-christian pseudo-historians like Russu! Don’t wait that somebody will tell you the truth(they are not interested in this), it will be better if you will begin to study with your own mind, and your european intuition will tell you what is false, and what is the truth!

  24. As a Romanian I can pretty much identify myself best with Zalmoxis aka Salmoxis, Zamolxis, Samolxis, the Ôðinn equivalent for Dacians and Tracians. There are also signs that we preached Dionysus, or an adaption to it, since the Dacians were famous for the wine and many vineyard and given that one of my birth names is actually Dionisie I feel connected to that too.

    Sadly not much is known of our ancient deities because we fell to the christian plague very early on (there are several archaeological sites from the 3rd and 4th centuries to prove this) and considering how the christians proceeded in the west and north europe some centuries later through destruction of the sacred pagan sites and customs we can pretty much asume the same happend here but much earlier. Many pagan customs live on in our folklore but most don’t even realise this and take them for christian. Anyway, I’m certain of my identity and am glad to be part of this big european family. HailaR ZamolxiS!

    • Zamolxis is not equivalent to Ôðinn, first of all, if we make parallels to scandiavian pantheon, Zamolxis would make part from Vanaheimr, so he is Vanir like Bendis; Zamolxis wasn’t supreme God, he was the God of the masses(peasants so to say, who were working in the fields), you can identify him with the whole group of Vanirs, like Freyr, Dyonisos(Bacchus) or Kaun. The supreme God(Father-God) of the Dacians was Gebeleizis; he was the God of thunder(like Þôrr), else he was the Sun-God(like Baldur), he was Wise-God(like WôðanaR) et cetera; so we can identify him with the Scandinavian Sky-God of war and wisdom – Tîwaz! Gebeleizis was the God for the elite like warriors, priests and kings and their families. Bendis – is a story apart, but its equivalent is Mona, or Isida, or Cybele. Gebeleizis can also be identified with Osiris, but Gebeleizis is much older…
      So Romanians(if you are them), stop thinking like judeo-christians and don’t believe what you are said in schools and universities about our forefathers – Dacians and Thracians! There was no one Ehowa-like God and our forefathers hadn’t christian concepts of life, Zamolxis isn’t the same as Gebeleizis and so on. If you want to find out more about our Gods, you just have to look deep into your soul and to hear the voice of your blood! GEBELEIZIS – ETERN!

      • What a great reply! Indeed it is said that Zamolxis was almost like God is today in most history books and that the Dacians were monotheisitc but this is a direct consequence of the earlier christinization of this region and thus the influnece of the judeo-christian doctrine is much stronger and deeper (not to mention that over 90% of the population declares themselves as christian in every census). I must admit that I have read far more about the scandinavian mithology than my own for the simple reason that information on our dacian gods is very scarce or maybe I didn’t look enough for it. I do however recall that Gebelezis and Zamolxis were seen as the same, at least according to a writing of Heordot some getae/dacians mixed them up. What happend is very probably what you said about the peasents having diffrent names or worshiping diffrent gods than the more educated people. If you know any books or a site where I can find more information on this it would be great to share. 🙂

        • Opinions are indeed separated. Many consider Gebeleizis and Zamolxe as the same deities. I think the most reliable source is Mircea Eliade’s opinion. Although I did read only his literature works, his scientifical works are much more apreciated, and he had an immense interest in religion. “The history of religion” is pretty hard to find, so maybe you (and me when I will have time) should start with “De la Zamolxe la Cenghis-Han”? Good luck my friend and don;t forget our ancient heritage; you know there is a theory that Troyans were Thracians, So, everything is much more complexe when you dig deep…

          • Theory? It’s an archeological fact! Troy was a Phrygian city, while Phrygians were Thracians. If you read Iliad by Homer, you will find there many thracian Heroes fighting for Troy.
            There are other theories like: that Romans(Latins) are descendats of Thracians(another tribe), for example they had been saying they are descendants of Trojans; even the name of Traian is very similar with Troian, I think it was its main semnification.
            That Macedonians and Alexander the Great were Thracians is a fact too, even from geografical point of view.
            So, as you see brother, we have a great forefathers, and that they remained in the shadow of civilizations they gave life to, doesn’t mean we have to think they had a less influence, because it is not true.

            • I agree. The main crime of our poiliticians is that they always was undermining our past; to the degree that word “Dacian” or “Thracian” is seen as sign of infantilic-megalomanic view on our heritage. They ar much more confortable to make us think that we are descendants of some interbred race of romans; primitive hunter-gatherers Dacians (with their pseudo-absence of any culture; although I am sure that in some museum’ basements are facts that are not revealed to common public- Imagine what would it mean if all their “Schoala Ardeleana” BS will come to surface) , Slavs ;Turks and even Cumans( another degenerate theory by Neagu Juvara). My ancestors are from northern Bucovina, and I am proud to be a heir of our beautiful moldavian dialect which is the oldest and the purest one from all the country ( remember, we are descendants of free Dacians – Carps). All our classics were very attached to Dacian past ( Eminescu, Blaga, chronicars, “Dacia Literara” followers and others).

              Pe când nu era moarte, nimic nemuritor,
              Nici sâmburul luminii de viață dătător,
              Nu era azi, nici mâne, nici ieri, nici totdeuna,
              Căci unul erau toate și totul era una;
              Pe când pământul, cerul, văzduhul, lumea toată
              Erau din rândul celor ce n-au fost niciodată,
              Pe-atunci erai Tu singur, încât mă-ntreb în sine-mi
              Au cine-i zeul cărui plecăm a noastre inemi?

              El singur zeu stătut-au nainte de-a fi zeii
              Și din noian de ape puteri au dat scânteii,
              El zeilor dă suflet și lumii fericire,
              El este-al omenimei isvor de mântuire
              Sus inimile voastre! Cântare aduceți-i,
              El este moartea morții și învierea vieții!

              Și el îmi dete ochii să văd lumina zilei,
              Și inima-mi împlut-au cu farmecele milei,
              În vuietul de vânturi auzit-am a lui mers
              Și-n glas purtat de cântec simții duiosu-i viers,
              Și tot pe lâng-acestea cerșesc înc-un adaos
              Să-ngăduie intrarea-mi în vecinicul repaos!

              Să blesteme pe-oricine de mine-o avea milă,
              Să binecuvânteze pe cel ce mă împilă,
              S-asculte orice gură, ce-ar vrea ca să mă râdă,
              Puteri să puie-n brațul ce-ar sta să mă ucidă,
              Ș-acela dintre oameni devină cel întâi
              Ce mi-a răpi chiar piatra ce-oi pune-o căpătâi.

              Gonit de toată lumea prin anii mei să trec,
              Pân’ ce-oi simți că ochiu-mi de lacrime e sec,
              Că-n orice om din lume un dușman mi se naște,
              C-ajung pe mine însumi a nu mă mai cunoaște,
              Că chinul și durerea simțirea-mi a-mpietrit-o,
              Că pot să-mi blestem mama, pe care am iubit-o –
              Când ura cea mai crudă mi s-a părea amor…
              Poate-oi uita durerea-mi și voi putea sa mor.

              Străin și făr’ de lege de voi muri – atunce
              Nevrednicu-mi cadavru în uliță l-arunce,
              Ș-aceluia, Părinte, să-i dai coroană scumpă,
              Ce-o să amuțe cânii, ca inima-mi s-o rumpă,
              Iar celui ce cu pietre mă va izbi în față,
              Îndură-te, stăpâne, și dă-i pe veci viață!

              Astfel numai, Părinte, eu pot să-ți mulțumesc
              Că tu mi-ai dat în lume norocul să trăiesc.
              Să cer a tale daruri, genunchi și frunte nu plec,
              Spre ură și blestemuri aș vrea să te înduplec,
              Să simt că de suflarea-ți suflarea mea se curmă
              Și-n stingerea eternă dispar fără de urmă!

              Hail Zamolxe . Hail Gebeleizis!

              • Well, try not to jump to conclusions, not all that much is know about Germanic tribes apart from what Tacitus and Caesar wrote. Practically nothing is know about the Scythians it seems, I agree with you that it is largely a case of people just not bothering to research them properly, and viewing them as insignificant, but if the evidence isn’t there to begin with…We should keep trying, and can reach a lot of assumptions based on what came after them (Varg’s logical assumption that Slavs are essentially Scythians being a good example of this). “Use your inuition”, as he says….Maybe listen to Negura Bunget for some inspiration, haha…

                  • well they are reasonably well know to anyone who can be bothered to listen to anything more than satyricon and dimmu borgir…I still have not bought an album (sad I missed out on their lovely limited editions with Carpathian soil or leaves included), I hear often they are not as good since OM but I loved what I heard of Vîrstele Pamîntului. Just love the instruments they play too – “weird”, really organic, rustic and athentic-sounding instruments, not at all cliched or over the top as nearly every “folk metal” band is.

                    • “Vîrstele Pamîntului” is my favorite album, it is their first album where actually the romanian pagan spirit could be felt(especially in lyrics and I say you that being a Romanian), so its not just folk metal. I really didn’t know they are so popular(especially in other countries, like England), Negură Bunget is the only romanian metal band I listen to, because in Romanian Countries there is a catastrophic deficit of pagan music, and of pagan at all, and qualitative too.
                      After “Vîrstele Pamîntului” they recorded an EP album named “Poarta De Dincolo” which I like very much too, especially the song “Poarta De Dincolo” is very good.

                      P.S. I think you can understand me now, how it is to listen to a non-autochtonuos metal band and not to understand the words; so it is one more reason to love this band.

                    • Dordeduh is basically NB.
                      I love “I” from N’ Crugu Bradului, and “Weaver of Lights”. NB is the only BM band that manages to sound futuristic and ancient at the same time.

                    • They recorded one of their records in an ancient Romanian dead tongue. I think the language had only a couple hundred words. Total. Yes that’s what I said 🙂

                • I can’t really understand how can one love NB after left of Sol Faur and Hyppogramus( soory about that). THey, after “Om” sound rather shitty and comercial. The driving force were those two guys ( Sol Faur and Edmond) after them in NB remained only drummer who is a fat greedy and leacher guy. If you want to feel old Negura atmosphere listen to Dor de DUh first album ” Dar de duh” and you will not fail( I was at their concert in Iasi and it was amaizing, also try to by their album instead of some degenerate music what Negura became…).

                  One good example : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9Fu2Hu3DM

  25. Did it occur to you why christianity preaches turning the other cheek, but was imposed with violence? Simple. The Pagans in Europe (and America, Australia etc.) weren’t aware of the bible, so the christians could get away with violence. When, during the process of violent christianization a new convert notices the contradiction, he is burned at the stake.
    Slowly, the people forget how the country became christian. So when several centuries later a jew or muslim attacks christian society, the christians will turn the other cheek. They have to, because jews and muslims are very aware of the teachings of the bible, and will use them against the christian.
    Very few people know that only after centuries muslim attacks the pope launched the crusades. Very few people know that against Pagans, christianity was far more ruthless. Very few people know that the pope refused to ally with shamanistic Mongols against islam, because they were Pagans.
    Christians will defend themselves with the No True Scotsman; “Those weren’t REAL christians!” he or she will object. But… how do we know this “real” Christian isn’t a murderous “fake”? After all, Pizarro went to church, Charlemagne went to church etc. So the fact that our christian apologist goes to church etc. is no proof that he won’t go crusader/inquisitor/witch hunter on you. Christianity was the first ideology to use the No True Scotsman on large scale, and this was copied by communism.

  26. My father side comes from England and my mother side from Finland. About the father side I know that our family line goes back to the anglo-saxon era before the norman conguest of England but about the finnish side I know only a little. thats why I have always preferred the germanic names more than the finnish names though I like both…

    • Finnish being a weirder and more alien language may have something to do with it too, especially if you don’t live in Finland. The Norse and Roman/Greek mythologies are probably the easiest to “access”…

        • That is strange….well the easier option makes sense, I guess, as it’s all the same anyway…and language aside you really aren’t that different from Scandinavians and the Northern Slavs…

  27. I say “Woden” not “Odhinn”. And I say “Thor” not “Thunar”.
    I’m a Saxon, Northern Germany/Denmark. Scandinavian.
    It all depends how far you want to go back. The word “rune” is native to two languages. Germanic and “Celtic”. As long as you’re Germanic or Gallic it really doesn’t matter. Technically I suppose the Icelandic route is the “clearest”?

  28. Why does someone identify with another tribe rather than with his own? Isn’t it a kind of betrayal? I’m asking because I still don’t know why Scandinavia feels more like home than Serbia. I don’t look Scandinavian at all and most likely Scandinavian nationalists wouldn’t even want me because I’m not Nordic. But I can’t help myself, it’s the way it is. I’d only like to understand why I am not attracted more by my homeland than I’m by EVERYTHING Nordic.

    • I do not know how long you’re outside Serbia or have you ever been in it, but you should visit the homeland, it is beautiful.

      • I’ve been there several times in summer. But I can’t even stand German summer, it’s run in my family, thus Serbian summers feel as if the whole nature would try to kill me.

    • I am English, yet I have always felt Nordic, I am part Irish as well yet I have never shown a particular interest in Celtic folklore ( my knowledge of it and Celtic deity names being next to nothing).

      It’s not a betrayal, just go with what feels right, for all you know you may well be at least part or even half Norse ultimately, which could explain your inclinations….I seem to vary between Norse and Greek/Roman, but more often than not Norse.

      • Perhaps because the modern english language is a descendant of the language of Scandinavians who settled in the British Isles prior to the Norman conquests. There are so many place names in the British Isles that are Scandinavian too! Kettleshulme, Chesire, so Ketil is a personal name, and holm in Danish means ‘land almost surrounded by water’. Additionally, I am a bit skeptical about alot of academic books on the ‘Celts’, some have very positive reviews, others appaling.

        • Not sure about Cheshire, as Chester along with any other -chester city is a Roman city, but it’s certainly true about Yorkshire (any name ending in -by is supposedly Norse). As Varg pointed out in comments on an older post though, the extent to which Norse has infiltrated Old English has been exaggerated, by people who are for a pan-European non-cultural (and non European) superstate, who overlook how a lot of words would have been similar or identical in Old Norse and Old English anyway.

          I think it’s also because the Vikings and Balts resisted Christianity for longer (more recently I have got more interested in the Lithuanian and Livonian history, and the Northern Crusades…)

          • I meant Kettleshulme in Chesire to be more specific, and your other point I have taken on board,

            • English is a Germanic language, with Latin words added during the Christianisation and French words added after the Norman conquest. For a long time the masses still spoken an almost entirely Germanic version of the language whilst the Aristocracy (Norman descended) used many French words. In time, those French words found their way into the common language. The overwhelming majority of place names and surnames in England are Germanic (-by, -ing, -shire, -wich, -er) which is the only real proof that’s needed that the English people are predominantly of Germanic blood (nevermind the studies that support this also).

                • May I add to your English discussion that Angles, Jutes and Saxons were South-Scandinavians, okay, all of them originally from Denmark, but so where the Franks, and the Normans (who were Danes), so basically all of you (too) are just a bunch of Danes. 😉

                  • Of course 🙂 and proud to be. Maybe this is why I am not all that bothered about Anglo-Saxon culture, as it’s not all that distinct a culture, or even a subculture…I knew very well that Jutes and Angles were Scandinavian, but I guess all Germanic tribes were at the end of the day…

      • I’m definitely not partly or half Nordic. I have blond ancestors, but they were South Europeans. And it’s not strange to feel Nordic as an Englishmen or Frenchmen.

        • If you have blonde ancestors you have Scandinavian ancestors of course 🙂 Remember what Varg said a while back about the nomadic nature of our fore fathers…loads of the Ancient Romans were blonde, like Sulla and Octavian, and presumably descended from Germanic tribes more so that “Latins” or other Mediterranean folk…(who were of course less “exotic”-looking than they are now…)

          Slavonic mythology is really interesting too though, I see it as a flipside of Norse I guess, similar to what Roman mythology is to Greek, though not quite as identical I suppose…I can see myself becoming more interested as I read up more on the Northern Crusades and Slav myths, I can’t see myself latching onto Celtic mythology anytime soon though, which is strange…

    • It is a kind of dilemna I have seen in a lot of french pagans. They feel attracted by the north and are not interrested by celtic or roman/greek deities. But when asked about their ancestors they immediately become agressive. Some of them even claimed to be from Normandy (so 1/32 nordic blood makes them pure Vkings” and fuck the 31/32 other parts). Most of them are leftist pagans who love to talk about Viking battles but never want to talk about other kind of battles we will have to do in the future.

      But even if a leftist speaking of his blood lineage is pathetic, I think every blood part is important. I mean that if this 1/32 nordic blood makes you go to the North, go for it. Never forget where you come from but you have the right to honour the ancestors you choose. Even if you have no nordic blood, never forget that we, Europeans have the same ancestors. Genetics has proven that blue eyed people comes from a single ancestor. And even if you are not blue eyed, you must have some “blue” genes somewhere in your DNA.

      We come from the Ice ages. We have the same ancestors. And as Mr. Vikernes said, the name of our gods are basically all the same.You want to pray Thor but you are not Nordic ? Why not after all. You would like to pray Thor but you don’t dare to ? Think older, pray the ancient gods, those we had when we were in the North.

      I don’t really like the Brittonic pantheon but I have found a britton god called Manogan. His name seems to mean “binding song” and he is the father of Beli mawr= Belenos= Baldur (“mawr” means the Great). There is almost no information on him but he is the first god, father of lght and knowledge (Beli mawr). l

      Many of us come here because we used to listen to a binding song called “Burzum”. And as the binding song created the first gods, we are creating the first new european brotherhood..
      HailaR WôðanaR ! HailaR ManogaN !

      • I agree with you.
        My opinion as a Frenchman:so-called “pagans”in my country are in their majority urban clowns.Urban,in the sense they don’t know what a tree is,it’s better to talk about paganism in the pubs or at home on the net.Hiking into woods?brr,certainly not!!!Clowns,because only few of them are able to put a racial dimension to their “heathenism”,which is however for me essential.
        Furthermore,”pagans”in France….some students from the upper class,who listen to mainstream pagan bands,are obsessed with Scandinavia and in definitive,are useless people.

    • How far back can you trace your family? Maybe you had Scandinavian ancestors at some point and they are the driving force in your blood memory for some reason. I’m in a similar situation. As far as I know my ancestors are from Germany on my dad’s side and Ireland/Scotland on my mom’s. But I find myself pulled toward the Slavic mythology.

      I don’t really see it as a big deal. Our religion is a religion of symbols and concepts and those remain the same regardless of language or minor custom. It could also be a matter of what you surround yourself with. I listen to a ton of Nokturnal Mortum, maybe you listen to a lot of Burzum? 😉

  29. Pingback: New Thulean Perspective post; “Uncertain Identity?”. | Ancestral Cult

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